August 02, 2004

Faith in the GOP

Continuing the IRS elimination thread, it seems my faith in the GOP may be returning:

Although Hastert's office did not return calls for comment on the report, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, offered a preview of the House GOP leadership's post-election tax agenda in a March speech in which he said the Republicans are determined to repeal the federal income tax.

Whether this is just talk to shore up the conservative base or not, I don't know. However, having politicians in key positions talking about it (and not just someone on the fringe of the political spectrum) says a lot. DeLay has been a proponent of scraping the income tax in favor of a national sales tax for a while, but if this is actually going to become a full-fleged GOP agenda, then it will definitely shore up the conservative base.

On the other hand (before I speak too soon), let's just see how they handle the Assault Weapons Ban in September. If it dies, and this becomes a platform, then they will definitely be back on track with some real conservative agendas. I might even forget about the prescription plan and education reform.

Oh yeah...I forgot...Cue class warfare whining, how it would benefit the rich, yadda yadda yadda.

Comments:

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Class warfare cued...by republicans--again; resistance led by patriots--again. (Libertarians, choose your side. But choose wisely.) The latter-day Tories want--and always have wanted--America to be feudal Europe where a few own everything, and the rest of us are to be glad we're serfs, and not slaves...although slavery has never been all that far off the table. Knowing this, the founding fathers allowed for "a well-regulated militia" (meaning then, "properly equipped and trained")in the event Tories actually tried to turn America back into England-West, which is exactly what republicans are working on right now, harder than ever, while everyone is distracted by Terist Threat Level: Chartreuse. Those of you who have armed yourself against the gubmnt, be ready if w gets re-selected. If his junta gets its way, in four years you won't recognize your country.

Since the ultra-rich have higher levels of investment income than those with lower incomes, they end up paying a lower share of taxes, percentage-wise. http://interestalert.com/brand/siteia.shtml?Story=st/sn/08020000aaa07402.upi&Sys=siteia&Fid=POLITICS&Type=News&Filter=Politics

Hastert referred to "investment capital," which starts or grows a business. The start-up or growth sometimes means job creation, but that's a by-product of investing, never a goal.

An investment portfolio shows only profit growth projections unless they release it to make it sound like they really, really care about creating jobs. Which they don't and never will. The purpose of investing is to get a Return On Investment (ROI). Creating New Jobs (CNJ) is a term that exists only for non-investors, not actual investors.

If you don't believe me, get out the paperwork from your savings account and/or CDs. Then show me where it talks about how many jobs your investment is likely to create. What? No colorful graphs or pie charts for job creation? Only profits (ROI)? Hmmm...

Know anybody who buys rental property to create jobs? Or do they cut the grass and repair the plumbing themselves to keep from having pay someone to do those things? Well, how about that.

What about buying old cars and fixing them up for resale? Do people do that to create jobs? Or do they do the work themselves in order to maximize profits?

There are people who buy machine guns for investments. How many jobs are created when someone buys a 60-year-old Browning M1919A4? Or an Uzi made in Israel 20 years ago?

Ever met anyone who buys gold coins, Elvis lamps, "Gone With The Wind" plates or baseball cards to create jobs?

Capitalism, by definition, has nothing to do with creating jobs. Capitalism is about turning $X into $2X, or more. Capitalists have to hire people, but they resent every penny--spent on wages, benefits, safety (OSHA), corporate taxes and any other overhead--that doesn't go into their own pockets. Every who takes their money is a "leech" (the gubmnt), a "profiteer" (employees) or a "socialist" (unions).

Capitalism says to all employees, "You should be glad I gave you a job. If you don't like working for me, go start your own business. Then you'll understand everything." What it doesn't say out loud is, "And if you do, I'll crush you in the finest spirit of the free marketplace where the consumers decide everything I allow them to have any say about. Then I'll take over your business."

Pretending for a moment that capitalists don't try to destroy all competition by any and all means available, they ignore a basic fact of nature when they trumpet entrepreneurialism: Some people have the talent for business, others don't. You can't teach talent, not even at Harvard or Vanderbilt. And business requires talent, just as do computer programming and playing piano by ear. Talent, not comittment, sweat and sacrifice, determines how far education, dedication and hard work can take you. Do you really believe if you took voice lessons every day for the next three years, you'd sing like Pavarotti? Or if you found the right coach, you could beat Serena Williams two out of three sets next year at Wimbledon? (Guys? Any takers?)

Anyone who believes any capitalist--or any capitalist whore (republican) in Washington--honestly gives a rat's nose about abortion, prayer in school, the Pledge of Allegiance, assault rifles, phonics, Harry Potter, carbon dating, flag-burning, gay marriage, or any other aspect of his life is detached from reality. They only think of you as someone who spends money on their products and/or services, pays most of the taxes for them, and does all the dying in war.

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 2, 2004 10:38 PM

i believe libertarians wouldn't agree with your ideas

plus your examples are bad

rental property- a person spends money to buy the property and that money goes to the seller.
the new owner then spends money on materials to rehab the house every time a new renter comes in. that money is more money that is getting put into the economy.

old cars- a person purchases an old car from another person. money changes hands. that person spends money on restoring the car by buying parts and possibly giving money to others for other services in restoring the car like painting or body work. even if a person completely restores a car themselves money is being spent and getting put into the economy.

old guns- money is being spent by one person and given to another. that money is changing hands.

one person cant affect the economy and create jobs but millions of people spending money enabled by lower taxes can. you need to think about the big picture and not just pat examples. money being spent on a large scale creates jobs.

Posted by: Ripper at August 3, 2004 08:47 AM

You're talking about "spending." Hastert was talking about "investing." Capitalists invest for profit, and create the fewest possible jobs at the lowest possible cost, which is why jobs are lost every time companies merge.

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 3, 2004 09:01 AM

you asked how many jobs those things would create. i was only answering your question.

Posted by: Ripper at August 3, 2004 01:29 PM

No, I asked if you knew anyone who invested to create jobs. You made up another question and answered it.

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 3, 2004 05:55 PM

here is one of your questions with one of your examples:

"What about buying old cars and fixing them up for resale? Do people do that to create jobs?"

where did i make up a question there?

Posted by: Ripper at August 3, 2004 07:42 PM

Answer the question. Do you know people who fix up old cars in order to create jobs? No, you don't. They do it to keep from paying someone else. NOT creating jobs maximizes profits.

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 3, 2004 08:14 PM

Speaking of faith in the GOP:

Real history: Since 1960, Democrat presidents have beaten republicans in almost every category--real growth, unemployment, government spending...you name it
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A29205-2004Jul30?language=printer

But faith is the belief in things UNSEEN, isn't it?

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 3, 2004 08:18 PM

i answer your question then you tell me it wasnt a question then when i point out your question you ask me to answer it which i have already done. you are definitely a liberal

Posted by: Ripper at August 3, 2004 09:22 PM

Since I'm definitely a librul, whatever that means, tell me again slower so I can understand this time: Do you or do you not know people who invest money in order to create jobs?

I ask because I've never met anyone who invested money to create jobs. I only know people who invest to create a ROI. Creating jobs with investments is secondary and usually accidental.

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 4, 2004 12:13 AM

Another reason to have faith in the GOP:

SEC fines Halliburton $7.5 million
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/04/business/04halliburton.html?th
The Halliburton Company secretly changed its accounting practices when Vice President Dick Cheney was its chief executive, the Securities and Exchange Commission said yesterday as it fined the company $7.5 million.

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 4, 2004 08:04 AM

More reason for Tories to have faith in the GOP

Is this what democracy looks like?
http://springfield.news-leader.com/opinions/today/0803-Bushrallyw-147362.html
Kerry supporters with tickets to Bush rally get arrested outside.

Or is this more like what it's supposed to be?
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&u=/nm/20040803/pl_nm/campaign_kerry_heinz_dc_1&printer=1
Bush supporters with bullhorns allowed into Kerry rally.

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 4, 2004 08:47 AM

even if u don't like him, it is difficult to argue with him on this one. the goal of any investment is to provide return - period. basic economic theory ...

Posted by: jakec at August 4, 2004 03:59 PM

Careful, jakec, you're starting to ramble. Too much Michael Moore? He's the cause of all our mental defects, you know.

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 4, 2004 05:01 PM

Well thanks for proving that you missed the point entirely there, Lib. Of course the point of capitalism is to make a buck. That's capitalism.

However, you can't make a buck off of nothing, can you? You can't make a buck if everyone else is unemployed, can you? No, you can't. Furthermore, as you become more successful, your success transfers to others. Point in case - my mom owns and operates a medical clinic. While her primary focus is to treat people, it IS a for-profit clinic. She wants to make a buck. She's a capitalist.

But mom can't do everything herself. There are medical records to be handled, which is a full time job in and of itself. So she hires someone to do that. There is financial paperwork, some of which she can do, some she can't. So she hires an accountant. And when her list of patients grew large enough, she hired another nurse to help with the load. All in the name of making a buck.

So there are three jobs created because my mom wanted to make a buck.

Even people who fix up old cars are indirectly creating jobs. Who makes the parts for the cars? Who calibrates the parts before their sold? Who sells the parts? Who ships them? Who stocks them? All those functions cannot be done by ONE MAN. There are drivers, shop owners, techs, mechanics, and cashiers all indirectly involved in helping that guy fix his car.

Those are the jobs created by capitalism. Thank you for proving that you flunked Econ 101. Go to the back of the class and learn something, will ya?

By the way, nice job of throwing up straw man arguments in a desperate attempt to cover the fact that you know jack shit about economics. Would you care to try again?

Posted by: Raging Dave at August 4, 2004 08:33 PM

And as for investments creating jobs, just what the hell do you think you're investing in, anyways? Even if you just stuff your money into an IRA, that money is getting USED. You don't think you get paid intrest on that money for nothing, do you? The bank or financial institution you're placing your money into is using it, in the form of loans and other investments.

By the way, just putting your money into a saving's account and not using it is creating a job, because there needs to be a bank in the first place, doesn't there?

Buying stocks? Stocks are put out by companies in an effort to raise cash. The higher the stock value, the more cash raised. Cash that goes to making that company work. Companies can't work without employees, can they?

So please take your fallacious argument and shove it. Job creation is an effect of capitalism. The cause or purpose of investing doesn't matter.

Posted by: Raging Dave at August 4, 2004 08:38 PM

Lives there a compassionate cancervative freedom-lover who can speak or write an argument without using profanity and insulting the opposing person instead of simply presenting his own argument?

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 4, 2004 10:45 PM

And speaking of profits vs. jobs...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4717&item=2259654516&rd=1
Bush Property Seized! Trading with the Enemy! Judicial Watch is pawing in disbelief through President Bush's business connections with the Saudi-based Bin Laden family.

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 5, 2004 01:16 AM

Another GOPer to have faith in

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40886-2004Aug4.html
Sen. Richard C. Shelby (R-Ala.) divulged classified intercepted messages to FAUXNEWS when he was on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 5, 2004 01:36 AM

Thank you for having no rebuttle whatsoever. And until you drop your holier-than-thou attitude and snide comments, I'll call you a fucking prick if I want to. If you don't like it, then maybe you should take another look at how often you insult the people here at this site.

Now go back to class you stupid shit. Maybe you'll learn something this time.

Posted by: Raging Dave at August 5, 2004 10:03 AM

blake, what's up? this dave guy has used the "f" word in two threads - i thought that was the kinda thing that got u worked up and others removed? hypocrisy, anyone?

anyway, RD, i don't see anything that TTL said that states he doesn't believe investment creates jobs, of course it does. he is simply stating that the point of investment is to provide return on that investment - all other consequences are secondary. that is Econ 101, so before you go on a tirade insulting someone, you might wanna get your facts straight. u wanna dislike the guy, there are probably plenty of reasons to do so, but i think in this instance you are barking up the wrong tree.

oh, and to illustrate my point, you state that your mom is a capitalist and the point of her clinic is to make a buck. at no point do you say it was ever her intent to create (three jobs) - it was her point to make money. it became more effective and likely more profitable for her when she employeed these people, which inevitably allowed her to see more patients. never was the goal. i don't know if she has financial backers or not, but i am sure (if she does) they absolutlely do not care if she has 3 employees or 300 - they are concerned with how much they will get back based upon what they put in - period. sorry, my man, but this is a losing battle for you.

please don't post anything that will make me agree further with TTL. Viva la France!

Posted by: jakec at August 5, 2004 11:21 AM

Of COURSE the point of capitalism is to make a buck! Obviously people wouldn't make an investment if they didn't get any return off of it!

However, making snide comments about capitalist just because we want to make a buck doesn't fly with me. Calling Republicans "capitalist whores" doesn't fly with me either. Calling capitalists "cancervatives" REALLY doesn't fly with me. If little Lib up there wants to sling insults around, he shouldn't be surprised when people return fire. If he can't handle that, maybe he should shut his mouth before it writes any more checks his ass can't cash. And if all he wants to do is whine and snivel when someone takes umbrage at his comments, well, he's just proving what a worthless stupid twit he really is.

And YOU people are the ones missing the point. Job creation is a REQUIRED INGREDIENT of capitalism! You cannot sell products to a vacume. You cannot buy materials from a void. Every time you buy or sell items, services, or anything else you must buy and sell from someone else. The very act of buying and selling enforces job creation, because unless someone has a job selling you products you can't function!

So for little Lib up there to fling accusations and insults around isn't just wrong, it's demeaning. And it shows his ignorance to be at an astounding level. Nobody just creates jobs out of the good of their heart, they create jobs because they have a product or a service that they want to provide to other people. You can't pay employees with nothing, you know. Capitalism, investing, job creation, they all go hand in hand. You can't have one without any of the others. There is no "oh, it's just a side effect of those greedy people". Each part is a needed ingredient for the others.

Posted by: Raging Dave at August 5, 2004 01:22 PM

not talking about capitalism - talking about investment. there is a difference.

Posted by: jakec at August 5, 2004 03:04 PM

Um... OK, I don't know how many times I can say this.

Investment is a part of capitalism. You can't talk about investments without talking about capitalism, and vice versa. They're intertwined.

Posted by: Raging Dave at August 5, 2004 09:05 PM

And speaking of faith in the GOP...

"But...you don't have the tooth..." (Mayor of Amity--JAWS)
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/08/10/terror.vegas.ap/

Time to admit it: tax cuts simply have failed to create jobs
http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040810/OPINION03/408100302/1035/OPINION

Are you better off now than four years ago?
http://www.americanprogressaction.org/site/pp.asp?c=klLWJcP7H&b=100480

WHILE LETTING CORPORATIONS OFF, BUSH PUSHES AUDITS OF POOR

POLICIES MEAN MORE TAX BURDEN FALLING ON AVERAGE AMERICANS

Tolerates Smear Campaign of lies
TELL BUSH TO HONOR HIS OWN WISHES FROM 1992: What a difference a decade makes. According to the 7/14/92 Washington Post, George W. Bush wrote a letter in 1992 on behalf of his father's presidential campaign to 85,697 campaign contributors condemning an operation attempting to smear Bill Clinton and encouraging them not to contribute to the effort.

E-mail George W. Bush (president@whitehouse.gov) and tell him to follow his own example by condemning the smear tactics of the SBVT and urging his contributors not to finance their activities.

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 10, 2004 08:26 PM

Many more reasons to have faith in the GOP

http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=831&POSTNUKESID=d584a45282b3ab4bcd6ce5c8a96b5522

• “With all due respect to those dear people, God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew.”-- Bailey Smith, Founding Father of the Christian Coalition, St. Petersburg Times, 6/26/94

• “I fixed the election in Florida for George Bush.”-- Former Sec. of State James Baker, as reported to Greg Palast by colleagues at BBC television, TomPaine.com, 12/8/03

• “I'm talking about people having a good time, these people, you ever heard of emotional release? You ever heard of need to blow some steam off?”-- Rush Limbaugh, commenting on the abuses in Abu Ghraib Prison, 5/4/04

• “This is no time to be precious about locating the exact individuals directly involved in this particular terrorist attack.... We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.”-- Ann Coulter, New York Daily News, 9/12/01

• “I want you just to let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism.”-- Randall Terry, founder of anti-abortion group, Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana, 8/16/93

• “They're not kids, they're ghetto slime.”-- Commentator Michael Savage, describing children killed by guns, 5/15/00

• “I AM the federal government.”-- House Majority Leader Tom Delay, when told it was against a federal law to smoke his cigar in a no-smoking area, Washington Post, May 2003

• ”Men in the pro-choice movement are either men trapped in women's bodies...or younger guys who are like camp followers looking for easy sex.”-- Rep. Bob Dornan (R-CA)

• “[Planned Parenthood] is teaching kids to fornicate, teaching people to have adultery, every kind of bestiality, homosexuality, lesbianism--everything that the Bible condemns.”-- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, 4/9/91

• “The long term goal [is] the execution of abortionists and parents who hire them. If we argue that abortion is murder, then we must call for the death penalty.”-- Gary DeMar, Ruler of the Nations, 1987

• “We should just turn the sheriff loose and have him arrest every Muslim that crosses the state line.”-- U.S. Rep. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA), Valdosta Daily Times, 11/20/01

• “Environmentalists are a socialist group of individuals that are the tool of the Democratic Party. I'm proud to say that they are my enemy. They are not Americans, never have been Americans, never will be Americans.”-- Rep. Don Young (R-AK), Alaska Public Radio, 08/19/96

• “Grown men should not be having sex with prostitutes unless they are married to them.”-- Jerry Falwell, on CNN's Crossfire, 5/17/97

• “That's treason, not patriotism. They ought to be run out of our country and not allowed back.”-- Tennessee State Sen. Tim Burchett (R-Knoxville), commenting about people who publicly opposed the Iraq war, Knoxville News Sentinel,, 4/28/03

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 12, 2004 05:52 PM