August 18, 2004

Who Would Jesus Vote For????

Here we go...I'm going to open a can of worms here, I'm sure.

Apparently, some in the left, attempting to counter the so called "religious monopoly" that the right has, have been bringing up the topic of "Who Would Jesus Vote For?" Their reasoning is that Jesus would have obviously been a Democrat because he cared for the poor whereas evil Republicans obviously don't.

It's a complex topic that can't be boiled down to simple political terms, said religious leaders who attended a Texas Faith Network conference in Austin on Tuesday. Many at the conference voiced concerns that the religious right dominates discussions of faith and morality in politics. They complained that issues such as abortion and gay marriage seem to take priority over hunger, corporate crime and even the war in Iraq.

First off, it's not a complex topic. It's quite simple. Jesus wasn't involved in politics, and he probably wouldn't have voted for anyone. Jesus stood above mere human quarrels. Today's politics really make no difference when it comes to eternity.

On the other hand, taking moral sins that the left supports and saying they aren't as important as supposed sins the right supports isn't exactly the best way to say that Jesus would probably support your side.

The theme throughout the left's use of Jesus as being a "Democrat" is shown in the following:

James C. Moore, co-author of "Bush's Brain: How Karl Rove Made George Bush Presidential," drew laughter and applause when he offered his view to the moderate to left-leaning crowd of about 250 clergy and lay leaders.

"If ever there were a bleeding-heart liberal, it was Jesus Christ," Moore said at Congregation Agudas Achim synagogue. "I think the carpenter from Galilee was the original Democrat."

Also, last month, Nathan Moore over at MooreThoughts received an email from a guy who claimed the following:

...lets face it even jesus was a democrat... he was a working man and took care of the homeless, the drunks, those with disease and no health care, unlike our president today...

It seems that the religion gap we have in today's politics is brining this type of thing out. Where does one begin?

The foremost fallacy in the left's comparison is that Jesus didn't seek to create a government agency or seek government handouts to feed the poor. He didn't rally for "free" health care either. He did it all himself.

Jesus helped the poor, fed the hungry, and healed the sick through miracles. However, that was only a small part of his being here on earth. In fact, many times, Jesus would leave an area because of the overwhelming numbers seeking miracles. The point was that he wasn't here on earth just to perform miracles. His was bringing a message that was much bigger and much more important than all of that. The left tends to leave this most important thing out when making their comparison.

My fellow Christians don't get off the hook that easily on this issue though. It is definitely up to us to help the poor and downtrodden in our society. In fact, I have made it clear that it should be the church's duty to do this (read here).

The left also apparently believes that the only message Christians preach today is hatred toward homosexuals and those that have abortions. These sins just happen to be prevalent in today's society, and they pretty much take on political lives of their own. Let's be brutally honest though...both abortion and homosexuality is wrong and the commission of these acts is sinful, but that doesn't mean that Christians are taught to hate those that do commit those sins.

Jesus taught that people should seek forgiveness for their sins. In fact, it is an essential part of his message. Seek forgiveness then sin no more. If one seeks forgiveness for a sin, but then continually repeats that sin, then they have not really accomplished anything.

Jesus' message was that we as humans are all miserable sinners, but through him we can be saved. Because of his sacrifice, we are cleansed. Through him we can come to God the Father. That in itself is more important than anything else.

If the left wants to start talking about Jesus, then let's do that. Apparently they only want to take bits and pieces of the subject to suit their own needs while leaving out the most important parts. I guess that's typical though.

Comments:

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Spot on! This is a great analysis of this issue. The Left wants to co-opt Christ? They completely misunderstands both the motivations and the goals of Christ and Christianity.

I hadn't read your blog before (h/t Bill Hobbs), but I'll be back!

Steve Bragg
DOUBLE TOOTHPICKS Weblog--WORLDVIEWS Behind The NEWS

Posted by: Steve Bragg at August 19, 2004 09:27 AM

I must agree. There is a huge difference in talking and walking.

Posted by: Jakester at August 19, 2004 09:47 AM

oh this is so cute - blakey is mad because someone suggested Jesus might have different political leanings than his own. which part of the bible suggests you can't have a sense of humor? must be the part i skipped - probably on the same page as his anti-abortion stance ...

Posted by: jakec at August 19, 2004 11:12 AM

you mean the part about thou shalt not commit murder?

Posted by: Ripper at August 19, 2004 11:51 AM

if murder = abortion, as you seem to think it does, then yes. however, that requires a heavy dosage of interpretation on your behalf. genesis condondes slavery - how would you interpret that?

Posted by: jakec at August 19, 2004 01:10 PM

abortion=murder

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40024

Posted by: Jakester at August 19, 2004 03:16 PM

your link = not convincing

Posted by: jakec at August 19, 2004 04:34 PM

If Bush is really a born-again christian and is really God's hand-picked fuehrer for turning America into feudal Europe, why does he lie every time he opens his mouth? Why does he associate with filth like the Shifty Goat Veterinarians for Trash? Why does he associate with criminals like Cheney and Kenny Boy Lay? Why does he associate with lying abominations like Falwell and Robertson whose prime directive is hate speech? Why does he associate with polluters who are the worst possible stewards of our natural resources, especially basic necessities like air and water?

Are these people true examples of Jesus' teachings? Does that "false witness" clause simply not apply to them? Is bullying and ostracising people how Jesus said to bring people into the fold? Can we steal a whole country so long as we don't covet the ruler's wife?

If Bush or a single Bush supporter is really a christian, I'm changing sides and joining the druids. I don't want anything to do with a heaven that would allow rethuglicons in as they are now.

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 19, 2004 07:57 PM

GOP doesn't schedule evangelical "christians" to speak at convention;
hopes Americans will pay no attention to the abominations behind the curtain
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040812/D84DIGLO0.html

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 19, 2004 08:12 PM

Beautiful article - though some of your commenters don't seem to have much skill at reading comprehension.

Yes, jakec & token, I'm talking about you.

Feel free to worship at the Church of Political Power if you wish - but please, don't pretend to be versed in Scripture or the teachings of Christ.

Posted by: BradDad at August 19, 2004 08:18 PM

Rethuglicon "christians" in their own words. None of this could possibly be construed as teaching the faithful to hate anybody at all.

• “With all due respect to those dear people, God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew.”-- Bailey Smith, Founding Father of the Christian Coalition, St. Petersburg Times, 6/26/94

• “I fixed the election in Florida for George Bush.”-- Former Sec. of State James Baker, as reported to Greg Palast by colleagues at BBC television, TomPaine.com, 12/8/03 (Which we knew well over two years ago, as if there was anything we could do about it then. It'll be taken care of in three months.)

• “I'm talking about people having a good time, these people, you ever heard of emotional release? You ever heard of need to blow some steam off?”-- Rush Limbaugh, commenting on the abuses in Abu Ghraib Prison, 5/4/04

• “This is no time to be precious about locating the exact individuals directly involved in this particular terrorist attack.... We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.”-- Ann Coulter, New York Daily News, 9/12/01 (I like the part about converting dead people.)

• “I want you just to let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism.”-- Randall Terry, founder of anti-abortion group, Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana, 8/16/93

• “They're not kids, they're ghetto slime.”-- Commentator Michael Savage, describing children killed by guns, 5/15/00

• ”Men in the pro-choice movement are either men trapped in women's bodies...or younger guys who are like camp followers looking for easy sex.”-- Rep. Bob Dornan (R-CA)

• “[Planned Parenthood] is teaching kids to fornicate, teaching people to have adultery, every kind of bestiality, homosexuality, lesbianism--everything that the Bible condemns.”-- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, 4/9/91 (forgetting, possibly ignoring, other things the Bible condemns, like lying and stealing, among other popular rethuglicon sins.)

• “The long term goal [is] the execution of abortionists and parents who hire them. If we argue that abortion is murder, then we must call for the death penalty.”-- Gary DeMar, Ruler of the Nations, 1987

• “We should just turn the sheriff loose and have him arrest every Muslim that crosses the state line.”-- U.S. Rep. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA), Valdosta Daily Times, 11/20/01

• “Environmentalists are a socialist group of individuals that are the tool of the Democratic Party. I'm proud to say that they are my enemy. They are not Americans, never have been Americans, never will be Americans.”-- Rep. Don Young (R-AK), Alaska Public Radio, 08/19/96

• “Grown men should not be having sex with prostitutes unless they are married to them.”-- Jerry Falwell, on CNN's Crossfire, 5/17/97 (So Ol' Jer approves of marrying hookers?)

• “That's treason, not patriotism. They ought to be run out of our country and not allowed back.”-- Tennessee State Sen. Tim Burchett (R-Knoxville), commenting about people who publicly opposed the Iraq war, Knoxville News Sentinel,, 4/28/03 (He's welcome to try to run me out.)

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 19, 2004 08:27 PM

No hate taught here, either.

World Net Daily's bookstore is hawking a book for children titled - brace yourself...

"Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed: A Small Lesson in Conservatism"

(Question to rethugs: Do you have any idea what your side is really up to? At least we know, and we simply won't allow it.)

Posted by: The Token Librul at August 19, 2004 08:34 PM

sorry dudes, but unlike you, falwell, and the taliban - I do not feel the need to tell women what to do with their bodies.

Posted by: jakec at August 20, 2004 08:23 AM

You mean their babies, don't you...dude?

Posted by: Jakester at August 20, 2004 09:30 AM

dude, you understand how pregnancy works, right? either way - their baby, their body, their box, their choice ... unless you and the taliban have your say.

Posted by: jakec at August 20, 2004 01:20 PM

As opposed to you and Chemical Ali, right? I mean, we are talking about the murder of innocent babies.

Posted by: Jakester at August 20, 2004 02:00 PM

like i said, if you consider it murder. i guess you have overlooked the obvious fact that it is legal, hence not murder. also, not sure what babies i killed - nice try though. the actions of our current president and his father (and their sanctions) have killed far more babies than "chemical ali", yet they are anti-women's health and choice - irony?

Posted by: jakec at August 20, 2004 02:20 PM

oops - or is it hypocrisy?

Posted by: jakec at August 20, 2004 02:25 PM

What about it isn't murder?

Posted by: Jakester at August 20, 2004 02:25 PM

Anti-women's health? What is healthy about abortion?

Posted by: Jakester at August 20, 2004 02:28 PM

again, dude, your interpretation of things - seems a bit narrow-minded. the law agrees with me. for some (certainly not all) women, the complications of child-birth can be deadly - they should be able to determine what they can do with their own bodies.

Posted by: jakec at August 20, 2004 03:26 PM

Jesus is dead. Form an opinion based upon what you can touch. Believe in yourself and find comfort in the absurd. It's all you've got.

Posted by: chris at August 21, 2004 11:33 PM

It's amazing to me- you can post any number of topics and get small reactions and opinions from a few people, but the mention of the name "Jesus" in a posting brings people and opinions out of the woodwork. Why is that, I wonder?

Posted by: Jakester at August 23, 2004 07:56 AM

true enough

Posted by: jake at August 23, 2004 08:04 AM

Now, wait a minute. Sanctions killed Iraqi children? Haven't we got past that lie yet? The oil for food plan allowed plenty of money for, uh, food, and medicine. It didn't include enough for the oil for palaces program, or for bribing the French and the Russians. The sanctions were instituted by the UN as part of the price for keeping Saddam in power, after he invaded Kuwait, and murdered more Kuwaitis in the few months he was there than have died from US ordnance and terrorist bombs combined, in eightween months.
And then there's the business about Bush lying: He said that there were chemical weapons in Iraq. There certainly had been. There was no evidence offered that they had been destroyed. John Kerry said they were still there, in 1997. President Bush said that the Iraqis had been trying to buy uranium oxide in Africa. Joe Wilson went there and said they hadn't. Then he wrote a book and said that they had. Now the Duelfer report says that the weapons were gone, and that Saddam had engaged in a complex strategic deception: Dump the weapons you've got. Get the sanctions and no-fly zones lifted. Kill a few thousand more Kurds and other undesirables. Then make new chem weapons, which he still had the capability of doing, with the research data intact, and the chemical plants, which can make baby formula, chlordane, or nerve gas. He had the shells and missles to deliver the chemicals. We found a goodly number of those. But, somehow, Bush lied.

Ken Lay? Enron executives called the White House to ask for a couple of favors, and got them, when Clinton lived there. They called again after Bush moved in, and got nothing.

Florida was an attempted scam on the gullible.
When I was a Democrat, which I was, for twenty eight years, I served as an election judge and, after that, as a clerk. My conversion to Republican was precipitated by my shock at the lies that the Dems told, after they lost in Florida. It's difficult to convey the starknes of this realization, for me and my wife. We know quite well that punch card machines have certqain problems. Failing to record votes is not one of them. People leave their ballot cards in the machine, instead of pulling them out and dropping them into the ballot box. Then the next person comes along and tries to put a card in, and it gets stuck. The machines are sealed, as an antifraud measure, so, the whole thing just has to shut down. But dimpled chads? Either the stylus is in the hole or it isn't. The active chads are separated by several inactive ones. If you have your hand anywhere near the name of your candidate, you can only punch the one you want. Moreover, the recounts were held, and further ones demanded, in four counties, controlled by Democrat majorities. The election officials in those counties, and therefore in most precincts therein, were Democrats. Did the Republicans somehow persuade Democrats to turn away Black voters? The felon list was raised as a bogey man. Investigations afterward showed that there were more felons left off the list than non-convicts put on it. And Blacks voted in record numbers. I have seen a copy of the memo from Lanny Davis, I think it was, to several lawyers in Florida, about the technicalities they might raise to prevent malied-in absentee ballots from being counted, as well as how to recognize a military return address. So, this former yellow dog Democrat was sick at heart, and had a change of heart, in 2000. No. Bush did not steal the election. The Democrats tried, and failed, and lost me.
Sorry for the long post. Use what you can, if you can.

Posted by: Michael Adams at October 8, 2004 10:36 PM

Oops! Line five needed to have "Iraqis" between than and have. Sorry

Posted by: Michael adams at October 8, 2004 10:43 PM